.jpg)
Fucking My Way To Enlightenment
what if sex could set you free? @katnippresents talks banging, bliss & breaking the rules - as paths to personal, feminist & spiritual liberation
Fucking My Way To Enlightenment
S1 E4 Fucking My Way To Enlightenment: Lex on paid lesbian sex work, healing and no hotness discounts
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Lex is the founder of Netherlands’ (and possibly the world’s) first lesbian escort agency, which Kat used a few years ago. We talk about why women pay for sex, what they’re really looking for, and how healing the experience can be. Lex shares some spicy stories from running the agency, what she looks for in a prospective escort and her own journey through kink.
https://www.destoutevrouw.nl/
what if sex could set you free? it's time for a f*cking revolution.
All right. Welcome to Fucking My Way to Enlightenment. Today we're in Amsterdam with Lex, who's the owner of a lesbian sex escort agency. Escort Agency. That I have personally used actually a couple years ago. 10 out of 10 service would recommend. So happy to have you here. Welcome. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Happy to be here.
SPEAKER_02First question I have. We're going to talk about sex today. By sex, we mean banging, making sweet, sweet love, copulating. What is your favorite phrase? What do you use when you uh have coital intercourse?
SPEAKER_00I like the word playing. Playing?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's kind of overall, all kinds of acts and things, and a lot of things uh come with sex, not just the physical uh part. So I like playing.
SPEAKER_02Amazing. And I guess this is more a lesbian experience too, when it's not just like banging, you actually doing a lot of things around sex and intimacy as well. Um, so you are an owner of an escort agency. Did you always want it to be one when you were a little girl? What did you want it to do when you grow up?
SPEAKER_00Well, looking back, I guess so. I've always been intrigued by sex and intimacy and and all the things around it. So um when I told my friends I was going to start this, they were like, of course you are. So I think it comes uh from way back. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And how did it happen? How did you come to the decision and set it up?
SPEAKER_00Um I was with a friend and we were talking about sex and women, my favorite subject. We were kind of drunk, and um, we were talking about how it's not possible for women. Uh there's no safe space if they want to experiment or they want to find something out, or they just want to have uh someone uh to have sex with, to play with. Um, there's nothing. Everything out there is for men. So then we started to Google if we could find something, and there was nothing. And I was like, this is my thing, I'm gonna start this.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And when was that?
SPEAKER_00Ten years ago.
SPEAKER_02Uh what how has your journey been since then? Have what have you learned along the way? How has it changed in terms of business?
SPEAKER_00Um I've learned that um unfortunately a lot of women have uh bad experiences with sex, and there's a lot of healing in sex and a lot of uh experimenting also. Women also like sex. People told me, of course. You can't you can't start that because women don't like sex, and that were basically all my straight friends telling me that, and I said, No, women like sex as well. So I've learned that that women like sex and that there's a lot of healing in sex and wonderful moments and life-changing uh moments, also.
SPEAKER_02And um, how would you describe your title? Like you're a bordello madam, brothel.
SPEAKER_00Bordello, I don't know the word. That's mean if you have a brothel.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But this is not a brothel, that's that's an uh a building where you go in and that's not it.
SPEAKER_02You don't have a physical space, no. So you're kind of just overseeing uh uh people who go to hotel rooms, houses. Yeah, yeah. So do you have like a title? I guess just the owner or founder of the escort agency, that's what you use. So that's how it normally works, people book online and then you send them obviously safely into someone's space or hotel.
SPEAKER_00Yes, they they contact me and they tell me what they want, and it's usually a lot of emails and a lot of talking and a lot of and then they ask me who, or I ask them, do you already have someone in mind? And then we go um find out who's the best match, and then they have to call me, um, because of course I get a lot of uh men or uh fakers or haters or whatever trying to book a date. So, and then I am also um the taxi driver, the bodyguard, the psychologist for ladies, um, also for the clients. Um, afterwards, a lot of clients uh contact me again to talk about it. So I do everything.
SPEAKER_02Wow, and you've mentioned that you have a lot of haters or men, fakers calling to book services that they are feeling excluded from, or yes, of course, uh they targeted me that it's uh discrimination because they can't have a have a booking, but also um uh women who want a threesome with their husband.
SPEAKER_01Ah and that's not allowed.
SPEAKER_00No, that's not allowed. It's a very it's a wonderful plan, do it. But you can go to every other agency in the world to book that. So no, that's not possible.
SPEAKER_02And um when you decided to do this, what you said your your friends were like, oh me, not surprised, but how did your family react?
SPEAKER_00Or uh not very well. No, no, they didn't like it. Uh some of my relatives are um supportive after all these years, but uh no, my parents don't like it, and uh I'm raised as very Catholic, so I guess that has something to do with it.
SPEAKER_02The guilt and shame around sex as well, yeah. Yeah. And how did you come around to set up naughty women? That's the name of the of the of of your of your company. Um, was it hard in terms of legislation here in Netherlands? Obviously, sex work is legal here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, well, we first went to the local, how do you say that? English is not my native language, so uh yeah, municipality, sure. Yeah, we went there and uh we offered our uh our concept, and there were like three people sitting there, and we have to talk with them and uh and they liked the idea. It's like Shak Tank. Then we have to wait for uh to get a license or not. And I thought if I'm gonna do this, I I need a license. I want everything to be transparent and and legit and whatever. So, and then we got the news that we got a license.
SPEAKER_02So and how did you um did you think immediately that it's gonna be a market for it? Like, did you know that there's gonna be interest? Or was that?
SPEAKER_00Well, I couldn't, I couldn't uh find out uh any documents about this because it wasn't there, but I just felt in my inner gut like there must be a market for this. So with the first client, I was like someone believed in it, and I was already happy, like I'm done. It works. I've achieved my goal, yes. And then uh, well, we're 10 years further now, so yes, there is absolutely a market for it.
SPEAKER_02And you mentioned that you had a USP that it was different to what's offered on the market, because obviously there are women out there that are offering paid sex, but you said it's mostly for men. But can someone hire from a different escort agency if I if I was gonna go to a different agency, would I be able to hire one of these women, not from your your place? In theory, yes, I guess. But I guess it's just a different concept. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and a different kind of service that we've offered. Yeah. Who did you how did you hire people? Who are you looking for when you're hiring? Would would I be okay? Like if I wanted to apply, I was I was tempted. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Tell me what you're looking for, so um, I'm very difficult in hiring. I get uh for the last 10 years about five applications a month or more. I don't go into alleys and asking people that clear is work for me, so they they they come to me and then we have uh a conversation. Sometimes it's the email that I think this is not gonna work. If they just email me like where can I sign up, and then I usually answer this isn't the local football club or something, so no. Um, and then I have to find out if they are emotionally capable of carrying heavy stories, also and um so they just have to be just hot. No, that's uh no, no, I don't even ask for pictures when you apply for a job. I just want to know if you're really good at uh communicating because that's what women do, communicate very well, so you have to be able to carry that, and you have to, of course, have interest in uh intimacy and uh well obviously love women, that's the first, but um I want to know that you're really doing this because you want to. Um all the ladies have another job, a main job. This is just for the adventure, the feminism, the um the women power. So if they really like it and they are um how do you say that, very motivated to do that, then it can be a yes.
SPEAKER_02And are you looking for someone who already had kind of a vivid sex life or already done sex work or can be a newbie as well that haven't done that work type of work before?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's not a problem. It's just that I really need to know that you do this because you want to do it. And if there's something that if people would find out or whatever, and your life is in shambles, then you shouldn't do it. Because that's too uh much of uh a risk uh to have. I don't want someone's life crumbling uh into pieces uh if someone would find out.
SPEAKER_02You when you advertise your uh workers, you don't put any pictures on the website, right? Wha why is that?
SPEAKER_00Uh for several reasons, because uh initially I found that I don't know too tacky or something. And it's also I don't want to uh stimulate uh people, uh men, to watch the side and like oh my god, and I want and also because women feel a lot of times uh uh not justified, intimidated by the pictures of the ladies. Then they're like, oh my god, she's so beautiful, and then she doesn't want anything to do with me. And it's it's not about of course it's also important because also a lot of women ask for a picture, but a lot of clients also don't want a picture.
SPEAKER_02Oh, so they go blind in fully.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's just the story, they write uh their profile themselves, so you can read a lot in a profile the the way they use sentences and words, and and they choose just by the profile.
SPEAKER_02I ask for the pictures. I was like, I need to see. Yeah, that's okay.
SPEAKER_00That's also then you can recognize someone when you meet her. That's also uh a practical reason, but uh a picture also says something, of course. Definitely that's not a problem, you're okay.
SPEAKER_02And why from your 10 years of experience, why do you think women pay for sex? Like, what is the main reason why they come to you?
SPEAKER_00Why do women pay for someone to talk to a psychologist and tear all the tell all their secrets and their traumas and their troubles when they can also talk to a friend about it? So why would you pay for sex? Because it's um professionally safe and um you can experiment and you can find out. Of course, this is also uh an agency people uh want to find out if whether they like women or not. And if they come from a country where it's illegal to be a lesbian and they dreamt about it their whole life, and this is a safe space. And why not?
SPEAKER_02So I guess there's a lot of trauma healing as well.
SPEAKER_00A lot. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's why I guess the communication is really important and the aftercare for me as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's a lot of uh women have a bad experience from one bad experience to major, huge, awful experiences. So, and sometimes um women are straight and had a bad experience and want to how do you say that, get into the field again, but um but try again first with a woman. But that feels a bit more safe, more yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for me, I I I remember it was first thing was I was surrounded by a lot of people who have used sex work and I had a very conflicted opinion about it myself and I wanted to see what it's what it's like. Um and in a way it was a healing experience for me because um I was always very much people-pleasing uh in a reciprocating mode. I was really always when I was receiving, I was already thinking, what can I do to the other person? I couldn't relax and just receive. And it was the first time ever when I just relaxed. I was like, I'm in this container, I paid, I'm not gonna, it's not my space to service. And it was uh a very liberating and healing experience that really helped me later on in other encounters also be able to just focus on myself.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I can imagine that. That's also if you have a certain role you always uh how do you say that play? Uh and then you can safely try something else without all your friends or the whole community saying, you know what uh what happened here.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I still called a few friends being hey, this just happened. And I was playing it's so cool. I was like, make sure you leave the cash on the bedside table.
SPEAKER_00I think like you've done it like a thousand times before. Yeah. Um that's always a thing, the cash that some people just transfer via bank so they don't have to worry about the cash. Um, but women also find it very sexy to be able to pay for it, and they like to give the cash like in a very dramatic way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, we love a bit of drama.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I also was like, I had such a great time, but after that, I was like, I think I could I could fall in love with you, and I was like, this is such a cliche, falling in love with your first sex worker. Yeah, I'm a fool. Um, so um we talked about healing and intimacy. Do you think you can be in truly intimate with a sex worker? With someone you don't know and you paid for this experience?
SPEAKER_00Yes, sometimes because you don't know her, and um how in again, how intimate can you get when you talk to a psychologist? That's also it's also very intimate to talk to someone. I would rather have sex with someone I don't know than talk to someone I don't know. So, yes, and of course the setting, and you know it's professional and you can trust them, and and I think I'm a lesbian, so I think it's very easy to connect with a woman and be intimate and have uh all kinds of emotional and and layers of connection, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I guess it's uh because you don't know this person, just like with a therapist, you pay it's a it's a guilt and shame free zone. Oh, in theory, because people can still bring shame and guilt into that space and feel judged or like thinking they're not enough for the sex worker. Uh but in theory it's a space that there's no judgment.
SPEAKER_00Of course, the the the ladies also have experience in that and try to get the shame out of the room. And I already uh upfront telling them if they're gonna ask me something about I'm ashamed to say this, can I say this? And I'm like, oh please let go of the shame. Or when they have a special, uh specific wish, and then I sometimes hope, oh god, let it be good. Something really weird, then it's like a lap dance or something, and it takes like a lot of emails for them to say, I want to ask you something, but can I ask the lady? And then, like, come on, tell me what is it, and then it's a lap dance. Yeah, what what are the most common requests if you can share? Like the most common um is um that the lady takes the lead and um not a lot of toys, but strap is uh something people request, and that she wears a lingerie, or that um that it goes slowly, that it's uh that there's time and get to know each other first or have a drink first.
SPEAKER_02And what are the most common misconceptions you think that women maybe come in with in terms of what this experience is gonna be like? I don't know, scissoring all night long when it's like actually nobody scissors, that's just part.
SPEAKER_00We that's the only thing we do, we lesbian. Um I think when you don't when they don't have uh any experience with a woman, they think um that you can do this in half an hour. They book an hour and they're like, What am I gonna do the other half hour? And I'm like, oh god, you don't know. But um There's never enough time, actually. Yeah, we can go on for hours. Um and that um I don't know, they're they're they're mostly surprised about the connection besides the the physical thing.
SPEAKER_02And are there any rules or boundaries that you have to set up up top, like no kissing or certain types of touch or no?
SPEAKER_00That's up to the ladies themselves. They are uh it's not like you get carte blanche because you're paying for it, they have their own boundaries and they can uh um change from day to day. It's just how you feel, like real women, if you if they feel like that today is not the day for and they will have that consent uh conversation, of course. So the client can say, well, not today, this or that, and the lady also uh give their boundaries.
SPEAKER_02Did you have to have uh did you ever have situations when you had to step in and save someone, or were there any risky situations with uh clients?
SPEAKER_00Um I once uh had someone calling that um the client one wanted to call her husband to join in.
SPEAKER_02Mid-session.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Sneaky.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was not amused.
SPEAKER_02You always pick them up and drive them.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I'm kind of a control freak, so I want them to be safe, and I also want them to uh well arrive on time, be safe, and then have a talk. Are you okay afterwards? And uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Are there any other security measures? I mean, I know it's a little different for a lesbian escort agency. Um actually the person I was um using the service of, they told me that they used to do uh sex work for men and they don't do that anymore. And it was kind of implied why, but I've asked, and it was because of a totally different vibe. Why if you could summarize, I don't know, but we're not trying to try to not make sweeping generalizations, but how would if I would be a sex worker, how is the work different for me in terms of working for female clients and men out there?
SPEAKER_00Um, I can imagine every owner of a regular agency would listen to this and say, You don't know that, so don't talk about it. So I won't. But um we all know the difference um between men and women in intimacy. Um, so I guess that um with my company there's a lot of uh talking and crying during dates and and things like that, and women are not used uh to have access to sex work. So almost every client tells me this is the first time I don't know what to do. So we're not used to it. It's not like we're doing this for uh several hundred years. Men all know already know what to do from friends, or and women don't, so and I guess a lot of for for all genders out there, a lot of sex that we do, unfortunately, is quite performative.
SPEAKER_02So we do it because we've seen some stuff on porn, or we do it to like look good in front of the person, and in that situation, you kind of really don't have to because you're there to be service and connect with someone, you're not really performing for that person.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, that's true. You don't you you don't get uh afterwards that someone says, well, that wasn't okay. It's just you can relax and and over over yeah, how do you say that? Um let it happen to you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And uh what does uh what does a day in the life of an owner of an agency like this look like? What do you what do you do on a daily basis?
SPEAKER_00Um I'm a lot online because people are asking all kinds of questions, also questions um when they're not really one to book a date, but just questions about being a lesbian or something. Really? Just like in general habits of being a lesbian? Yeah, things like that. Or uh so I'm a lot online and I uh I make all the schedules and uh talk to the ladies and drive. So yeah, I'm doing this for 10 years now without ever one day closing.
SPEAKER_02So and are you busy? Are you do you have clients every day?
SPEAKER_00Um not every day. Uh online, yes. Uh booking, no, not every day. So sometimes three uh on one day, and then I'm driving a lot and I'm getting a lot of tickets because I like to drive really fast. Sometimes I have to, but um not every day, no.
SPEAKER_02And um what are the wildest kind of emails or calls you've requested, whether it's uh silly, silly requests or silly questions or threatening? You've mentioned that you're also uh getting some you know hate stuff there. What is it related to why do people feel triggered by what you do?
SPEAKER_00Um They feel triggered because it's sex work. And uh uh feminists um are well known for you can do everything you want, and if you're a woman, then please, but not that. Everything is okay, but not that. And they like to tell me that. And um men are triggered by the fact that they can't make a booking, and sometimes people are triggered by um because of their religion, says it's not okay, or um, the wildest requests I'm not gonna share because the client would see this and think that's about me. So I want clients to feel safe, so I'm not gonna do that. But I have several times that uh a client calls me or what's at me and says, I'm really beautiful myself, so can I get a discount? And the audacity things. Yeah, I can't even respond to that. That's that's wild.
SPEAKER_02And did you ever um feel um in terms of the the stuff that people message you about with hate, was there any threats as well that you've received, or was it just mostly I don't like this kind of emails?
SPEAKER_00No, it's also uh threat, yeah, it's also uh threatening, and uh that there's also um because it's of course also about stigma, and there's also a lot of stigma in the in the corporate world, like I don't get a loan or uh a mortgage or things like that because I do this job. I have uh an office, and everyone outside their office has a little card with what they're offering in service, and I can't because all the people in the building would be, I don't know, uh go to hell if they're in the same uh hall as me.
SPEAKER_02And um you've mentioned also that the feminists are hating on what you do as well. Uh is there at least suggesting that sex work can be you can be a feminist if you're offering sex services? What's the reasoning out there?
SPEAKER_00You um well I think so, yeah. The ladies uh uh working with me are uh very capable of uh choosing their own path. So that's what feminists want, right? That they are that women choosing their own path and don't let anyone tell them what not to do. Yeah, it's ironic.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's wild. I mean, I hear like in terms of sex work, there's so much, there's so much out there. It's it's such a complicated matter as well. And you know, you have people who advocate obviously for what's happening in here or in Germany when sex work is legal and it's safer, uh, and uh you know, people who work in the countries that it's not legal and end up being in really sketchy situations, being abused and seeing victims of also trafficking and all that, it's it's very hard to maybe see a full picture for some people.
SPEAKER_00Um well I can imagine that that people feel like is is this okay, is this voluntary? And and I understand that it's uh it's a very um how do you say that? Business with a lot of things going on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's complicated. And tell us a little bit more about you. Do you have stats on where do your clients come from? Do you get a lot of domestic kind of traffic from the Netherlands or is it more international people visiting?
SPEAKER_00Um, I think 50% is from other countries.
SPEAKER_02Anyone in particular? Do you have like I want to see statistics?
SPEAKER_00I don't have the statistics uh in my mind, but um a lot of people come from USA and um they then travel uh especially uh for the service for the service. Wow. Uh from Europe and also from countries where it's not allowed to be uh intimate with another woman as a woman.
SPEAKER_02Wow, so they're really traveling just for that.
SPEAKER_00Are they booking just an hour then or are they actually committing to uh sometimes it's just an hour because well it's also um a lot of money, so I can imagine an hour is sometimes uh all you have, and sometimes it's more hours, four or five hours.
SPEAKER_02What is the longest request you've ever had?
SPEAKER_00A weekend.
SPEAKER_02A whole weekend. Is there a discount for a weekend?
SPEAKER_00No, still per hour. I don't I don't do discounts, even if you have it. Well, because it's the salary of the lady, I'm not gonna interfere in that.
SPEAKER_02And what is the hourly late rate?
SPEAKER_00Uh 260 euros.
SPEAKER_02Worth every penny. I'm telling you. And have you noticed over the last 10 years, um, has the kind of stigma around booking a sex worker changed, do you think? Or is kind of similar to what it used to be?
SPEAKER_00I don't think it changed. It's still uh I I also think that the the stigma on on lesbian and the community is is not getting better. So, um, and on sex work, it's it's two taboos. Um, no, it's not really getting better. I'm doing my best, but it's still uh uh frowned upon.
SPEAKER_02And in general, do you think much of like people being liberated around sexual issues or or sex in general trying things more? Has that also changed? I guess we're going into two different directions.
SPEAKER_00We have people who are ultra-Christian now and conservative again, and then some Well, I think young people, uh I I had some guest lessons on uh universities in Amsterdam, and uh the things they ask is there are more open talking about it with the generation of my parents, obviously are not talking about it ever. Sex does not exist, so um we are born into a cabbage patch. Absolutely, yeah. I I think um the stigma on sex work is is is still there, but talking about sex is is getting more um okay.
SPEAKER_02And when you give out interviews, I know this is not your first time, you have done several articles and interviews and podcasts. Um do you feel like you have to watch your mouth? You have to like be crazy.
SPEAKER_00Every minute and every second and every word, yes.
SPEAKER_02They'll come after you.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and you're gonna be cancelled, or someone tries to frame you with something you said, or get it out of context, or yes, that's very difficult. I really have to watch what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02Any story what's your oldest client?
SPEAKER_00My oldest client was a woman of uh 89 years old, and yes, it's an amazing story. Um friends of hers uh called me that uh she almost died, she was in the hospital, and she called them like come over here on a deathbed, yes, something like that. And she called them, like, come over here, I want to ask you something. And they thought uh she was about to uh tell them I want you or you to be at my funeral or whatever, and then she said, I think I want to be intimate with a woman. Can you arrange that? So they called me with the question, like, is this possible? And I personally thought this has to be possible, whatever happens, if no one wants to do this in my company, then I'm going. But she's 89 years old, we have to do this. And uh, luckily, uh proud to say that uh all the ladies said yes, it would be an honor. And um, well, long story short, she booked uh several times and um she was very naughty, she's the most naughty woman I ever met. She really was very naughty and amazing, and it was also somewhat sad because she wanted uh she had regrets that she did this on her uh 89th. Uh it's never too late though. Yeah, apparently it's never too late, but it was amazing, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So, um, what was your kind of personal liberation, sexual liberation journey like that you've arrived to the point when you decided to set up the agency, and maybe that also did that help you in your own exploration as well?
SPEAKER_00Um I think I also I I had a very um fun, happy relationship with sex already all my life. So I wasn't really trying to search things for liberation, and when I started this, I felt like everything I experimented and and experienced and things like that. People should be able to have that if they want to.
SPEAKER_02So um and coming from a Catholic kind of family, because I know myself like that, uh always kind of at the beginning screws you up a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it does. I guess you have two kinds of people that if you are raised very Catholic, that you you don't ever try anything because or you try everything. Everything, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Always the biggest freaks out there in the bedroom. True. Um, what what are you into? Are you what kind what kind of person are you into? What do you look for in a person personally?
SPEAKER_00Um I'm into uh women who are not afraid to show uh enjoy uh joy and and things like that. It's also okay if you are a kind of shy or but I really like to see the developments that they open up.
SPEAKER_02And uh are you into any kinky stuff that you can show?
SPEAKER_00Um how can I start an agency and be very Yes, of course I am.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well.
SPEAKER_00You can also book uh uh BDSM dates and it will be very um how do you say that? Unhandy, not handy if if I don't know anything about it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, sure. So you have to do research for the company.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm already into that, so yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um on a dominating side?
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, I've hired actually uh we've talked about this, uh, but we've I've hired uh uh dominatrix after in Berlin as well. Um and it was very interesting because of uh the initially when I was more going more into dominating space, yeah, I thought I was in control. Um because you initially when you come in, you're like, oh, you just whip someone into shape and you know you you're kind of controlling the situation, but it's not as straightforward as it seems, right?
SPEAKER_00No, no, of course you're not the one calling, you are the one calling, and uh you orchestrate an a setting, but if uh someone in submission says no, it's no. So they actually have the ultimate power, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And there's so much work actually around making sure that you're creating a safe uh space and someone's feeling um emotional safety to surrender fully to you, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's the kick, I guess. Getting someone to feel uh um safe to surrender.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And how do you ensure that in a dynamic like that?
SPEAKER_00Um that starts way before uh uh ending up uh in a bad that's uh communication. And yeah, well that's it's some mind playing and some playing, but it's communication uh especially. Also just directly telling them they're safe, but um showing them that they're safe. Uh if they say no to something that you immediately stop and that you feel make them feel safe in um just uh saying if something is uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_02And have you ever thought about selling your own services as well?
SPEAKER_00Oh yes, because that's the most wonderful job. But I can't. If someone calls me and wants to talk for an hour, I can't tell anyone, say, well, just lay there, stay still, and then talk to clients.
SPEAKER_02So you kind of have to be available 24-7, you say, with your clients on the phone.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, because there are opening hours on the website, but no one reads that ever. Because sometimes when the children are in bed and they had a glass of wine and it's after nine, because officially I close after nine, and they're gonna watch at me like I'm so nervous, and then I go at 11 o'clock or 12, like, okay, I'm gonna answer this right now because she can't sleep if I don't.
SPEAKER_02So really doing a lot of therapy work, I see.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, somewhat, yeah, I guess so.
SPEAKER_02Um, would you use and we've talked about the border on madam and and the terms you use, would you would you say you're kind of a pimp?
SPEAKER_00It's a fun word on uh parties and uh just to to uh pimping the ladies out. Uh of course I don't use that word because the the connotation of the word is bad, but it's fun. And uh amongst the ladies, we have a lot of jokes, things about that. So uh with each other we do that. Yes, that's fun.
SPEAKER_02Do you meet like uh do you meet with the ladies uh all together?
SPEAKER_00Uh sometimes it's very hard to get them all together, but uh with the 10th anniversary, of course, we did. But uh I meet them every week when they're having uh a booking.
SPEAKER_02So and would you have given that you're seeing what women are learning and healing, is there any advice you would give people for having better sex?
SPEAKER_00Um lose the shame. That most uh important, I guess. That it's uh take your time, lose the shame, and um stop watching I don't know, porn or whatever, as in uh that you have to do it that way. You can watch porn because it's amazing. I like to watch porn, but don't um act as if you want to do the same things they're doing.
SPEAKER_02What kind of porn do you watch?
SPEAKER_00Um I like hand tie because no one is involved in that, it's all uh graphic and uh uh what else do I watch? Well, of course, women I watch. I also like uh gay porn man.
SPEAKER_02So heated rivalry. Have you seen that one? What heated rivalry?
SPEAKER_00No, I haven't seen it, but I heard about it. Yeah, no, never saw it.
SPEAKER_02I've actually got casted in um uh ASMR kind of um audio version of uh lesbian heated rivalry. Yeah, so my name is Sasha, and I'm an Eastern European ice hockey player and I'm uh fisting one of my colleagues on the team. It's on Dipsy. If anybody wants to check it out, it's called Fire and Ice.
SPEAKER_00Okay, nice.
SPEAKER_02Shameless plugin. And um would you say final question? Can you fuck your way to enlightenment?
SPEAKER_00Definitely, yes, if you can fuck your way to a delusion, you can also fuck your way to London.
SPEAKER_02Fabulous. Thank you very much for doing this.
SPEAKER_00You're welcome.
SPEAKER_02Everybody book your services now. If you want to do this as a job, also feel free to send a CV. Uh and yeah, explore the joy of um paid lesbian sex, yo.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.